5Qs for Ralph Conti on ground-up developments
Over four decades as a retail real estate developer, Ralph Conti has pretty much seen it all.
He’s developed classic enclosed malls at DDR, community centers at Homart, and outdoor centers at Kimco. As a partner at North American Properties, he helped develop one of the nation’s most popular mixed-use destinations, the Avalon project outside of Atlanta. Ten years ago, Conti struck out on his own with RaCo Real Estate, developer of the 160-acre Celebration Pointe mixed-use project in Gainesville, Fla. We decided to call on Ralph and get his long-seasoned take on how the events that rang in the ‘20s might affect new retail projects.
How has the pandemic changed the way local elected officials are approaching approvals for ground-up development?
I’m not seeing anything radically different where there’s a delay on approvals. I think the way developers are going to approach it will change more than the way the politicians do. It’s about assessing risk. The pandemic has been so politicized that the risk for ground-up development has intensified, but it’s created some false risk, as well.
Are municipal officials generally aware of how mixed-use developments like Celebration Pointe can serve as community rallying points?
The pandemic has not had a ton of effect on it, apart from people wanting to be outside instead of indoors. In high-density mixed-use projects, you’re not going to get away with not having public space. Still, unless you’re getting free money, every piece of a property you develop has to have a return. Maybe you can convince the municipality to initiate some bond activity for public space. There’s a smaller project we’re working on in Atlanta that means as much to the community as the regional mall. It’s the community mixed-use projected and the municipality is actively involved in telling us what it wants.
Has the pandemic affected space planning and design?
No question about it. Just the other day I had a meeting with architects on a project in the Atlanta area. It’s all about “We’ve got to have a rooftop bar. We have to have a public space out front so we can roll up these doors and have a bar inside and outside.” The pandemic shined a much brighter light on outdoor space, but it’s something we’ve been doing for a long time. When I was in Chicago, we did lots of projects that used open space. The weather doesn’t impact outdoor space as much as people think it does. People everywhere want the option of outdoor space.
What’s the most significant change in ground-up development since you first started decades ago?
I started in this business in the mid-Seventies and I’ve seen a ton of change in retail. Sure, the pandemic caused some things to happen, but it’s always been changing. I started with the classic barbell projects—a straight linear center with an anchor on each side. Get your J.C. Penney’s and your Sears and go! Then power centers became the big rage through the Eighties and Nineties. We even did some vertical retail spaces. Nobody could believe that a retailer could be on the third floor and do business, but they did get developed and as we had envisioned it. Mixed-use then came in around 2000. Aside from certain basic fundamentals, retail development is always changing.
Some categorize this as the time of the downfall of physical retail. Others see it as a time of retail re-birth. What’s your call?
Rebirth? I don’t know. More of a renaissance. Every so often the retail industry goes through this. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard that brick-and-mortar is dead. But the way I see things is that the U.S. and the world population is going to grow. We like to be with other people in safe environments, and I think there’s going to be an explosion in public places when this is over. Celebration Pointe has been packed. I think you’re going to see people flooding these environments.